Inside APA Aesthetic: How to reach the world’s top aesthetic clinic ー with Dr. Felici

Antonello Croce: Imagine leaving your family practice in Italy to chase a dream halfway across the world in one of the most prestigious aesthetic clinics. Welcome to the Next Dental podcast, sponsored by Remedico. 

I am Antonello Croce, and today our guest is Edoardo Felici. Hi, Edoardo.

Edoardo Felici: Hi. How are you today? Thank you for having me. Thank you. I'm good. I'm good, thank you. A little bit tired after a day of working, but it's fine.

Antonello Croce: Edoardo, for those who don't know you, let's give these people an elevator pitch. Who is Edoardo Felici in one sentence?

Edoardo Felici: Well, one sentence is impossible even because I don't have any elevator pitch, but I would say Edoardo is a dentist. He's an Italian dentist who loves to be active and is really passionate about whatever he is doing, and a little bit competitive.

Antonello Croce: Edoardo, you joined the APA team one year ago. Congratulations for that.

Edoardo Felici: Thank you. And it's been already more than one year. It feels like forever. 

Antonello Croce: I just saw one reel today. Is it APA or Apa? You should know it because we are Italian.

Edoardo Felici: It's Apa. There's no point.

Antonello Croce: Yes guys, we both are Italian, so this might be weird, but you will listen to an Italian accent during this podcast. Edoardo, how did everything start there? What was your plan?

Edoardo Felici: So the funny thing is that I never had a plan. I never planned to be here. I actually planned to be in Dubai, working in Dubai, but I never thought it would be possible to work with Apa and close to him and in general, in Apa aesthetics here in Dubai. I always loved Dubai. I've always been a little bit obsessive. And talking about competitiveness, I've always been like, I think Dubai is the place where the big guys are, right, in everything. So I was always chasing this dream to come here and work just because I wanted to be with the best. I wanted to compete with the best.

And I've always been obsessed basically with Apa Aesthetic and whatever they were doing. And so for me it was trying to chase this idea of if he's doing what he's doing, I'm for sure able to do the same or at least try to do it. And I was always chasing him, trying to connect with him. Then a lot of things happened. I will tell you later, maybe. And I found out, knowing him, meeting him in person... we've been close to each other for a while, and at some point I was like, this is the moment where I can come and work with you. So yeah, basically everything. I was quite, I would say, manifesting this. I don't believe in manifesting. This is another topic. I think you can manifest, but until you're not working for what you're manifesting, it's quite impossible that everything will happen. And for me now, I'm doing what I was manifesting.

Antonello Croce: And you say that you bring from Italy the craftsmanship and the idea?

Edoardo Felici: For sure. I mean, I think that being Italian was one of the, I would say, qualities. I don't know if it's a quality. Yeah, keep it as a quality. Exactly. For me to be in aesthetics in general. Dr. Apa has always been also... he's a quite obsessive person, so he's quite obsessed with Italy, the Italian vision, mentality, probably. We still don't know if it's real Italian or not, but I would say that he's also Italian. So we connected a lot, Michael and I, we connected a lot on this topic, this vision. So yeah, for sure. One of the reasons why I think I am here is also because of that.

Antonello Croce: But okay, you joined a different world, a dentistry in luxury, let's say. Your father is a dentist as well, right?

Edoardo Felici: Yes.

Antonello Croce: And anyone else?

Edoardo Felici: My brother also.

Antonello Croce: Your brother also. How is this difference between what your father is doing now and what he was doing before? What does he think about it? I mean, do you talk about your different approaches?

Edoardo Felici: Yeah, yeah, yeah. I would say, to be honest, my father has always been... together with my brother, but with my brother it's different because we are more or less the same age. So we grew up with the same mentality. With my father, my father is also one of my best friends, and for him... so listen, this is something really interesting. A lot of people ask me why did you choose to become a dentist? And I always chased also his dream, basically, and his vision. It taught me one important thing that for me was always my focus. I was not even in high school, and he was saying, "Listen, dentistry is another job as others. But apart from you need to love medicine, you need to love taking care of patients and whatever, this is something that you expect from a dentist. But it's a job that can make you feel free."

And it's important because it's true that for him, dentistry has always been the freedom to express himself. And for me it's always been the same because that's why I was able to chase my dreams and my vision, my perspective. So in terms of what's the difference between what he's doing and what he was doing from what I'm doing... it's that now I'm a little bit more focused on aesthetics. Basically. But in general, I think that in Italy and in Europe, I mean, I feel... sorry for Italian dentists, but I feel like there's not this vision, this idea of being focused only on cosmetic and aesthetic dentistry.

Antonello Croce: Well, it's a different culture maybe.

Edoardo Felici: Yeah, it's different. There's nothing wrong, but it's true that being here, I'm really more into, deep into this field. This…

Antonello Croce: You're an expert in that, in like a niche.

Edoardo Felici: I need... yeah, for sure. For sure. And being an expert means that not only you are doing just this, but you are doing this a lot. And that's what makes you an expert. Because it's true that my father, my brother, for example, my brother is doing dentistry in general, different things. He is doing a lot of dentistry, maybe more than me in terms of general dentistry. He's placing a lot of implants, a lot of big rehabilitations. He is doing a lot of things, and he's a super good dentist. I look at him like he knows what he's doing, but in terms of aesthetics, I feel like if I'm better or if I can help him, it's because I'm doing this every day for 24 hours, basically.

Antonello Croce: Yeah, it makes sense.

Edoardo Felici: But it's true that you need to be a little bit obsessed to be able to do this because if not, it would be boring. It would be…

Antonello Croce: Yeah, I got your point. Crazy. Yeah, right. You have the advantages as anyone else in different fields. For example, if you're doing like a different kind of job, if you focus on that... of course. I don't believe in multitasking, let's say, because we are not made to be multitasking.

Edoardo Felici: Yeah, exactly. I mean, it's actually a good point. Yesterday while I was running, I was listening to another podcast, not yours, but another, but it's fine. And this woman, actually, she was saying exactly what you said: I don't believe in multitasking. You need to be an expert in something. Then you can learn some other skills, but find something that you are good at and then be an expert on this. Try to be the best on this. That's actually really, really interesting.

Antonello Croce: Yeah. Yeah, it's easy.

Edoardo Felici: And that's what I'm doing. I mean, I've always been passionate in general about beauty. I love fashion. I love, I mean, exactly. Also this, we are Italian. We like everything that is nice, that is beautiful, you know? Design, good design. Design. I mean, not only cars, but fashion, but also our cities. Rome is amazing. I mean, we have... the beauty is everywhere in Italy. So I think I'm able now to express this.

Antonello Croce: Yeah, yeah. You want to bring…

Edoardo Felici: Yeah, yeah. Makes sense.

Antonello Croce: And bringing this to Dubai. And making also... you shifted. I mean, you now have different patients. So your daily work is different. And when you go back to Italy and you meet your father, do you like compare the day that you are having now and what he has like as a classic?

Edoardo Felici: Yeah, yeah. No, for sure. That's for sure. I mean, not only when I come back to Italy, I think every night we have this appointment that if I miss one call, one night call, it's a problem. World War. And with this call, we basically speak about dentistry and the daily routine, and what happened during the day for me and for him.

Antonello Croce: Has he ever thought that dentistry could be like that? I mean, globally?

Edoardo Felici: No. No, no, no. To be honest, no. And I think he still doesn't understand what I'm doing.

Antonello Croce: Yeah. And you anyway, the social media person.

Edoardo Felici: Yeah. Social media. I mean, he's always been a little open-minded. I mean, he doesn't have Instagram. He has Instagram, but he doesn't understand the value, the importance of this podcast. What's that podcast?

But I think it's also something that's helping me, because at the end of the day, you need to understand the past to be able to take something from the past, what is working from the past, and then apply it for the future. So I think it's helpful also for me to still keep this relationship with my father and with my background, basically. Because he helped me first to be focused on what I'm doing, remember where I came from, and then grow up. Because for me it was not leaving everything because I wanted something different. I left because I want to grow. So I want to keep my... you know, what's left, what's really…

Antonello Croce: Yeah. And this is actually a good point where we go into digital dentistry, for example, because that's the advantage that the students who knew what there was before. So what exactly, what is the traditional... and they then learn the digital. I think that they are a bit more advantaged. They have more advantages compared to the ones that now start to study directly the digital.

Edoardo Felici: Absolutely.

Antonello Croce: And regarding digital in your workflow, during, like, nowadays we have same day implants or with this technology, or same day crowns, whatever. What's the technology that you apply in your workflow?

Edoardo Felici: Yeah, it's true because it's funny how dentistry, at the end of the day, can be related to daily life, and that's the point. We try to use as many technologies as we can, but at least for me, I have this idea of not changing what is working. So talking about digital dentistry, we are trying to use digital dentistry to improve our workflow for sure. But it doesn't need to change our workflow. Because our workflow is what is working and the final product is what's important to have.

And especially now that we are trying to... I mean, I just posted something about how many good dentists are around us, how many good products are around us. But at the end of the day, what makes you feel confident and what makes you feel confident in front of the patient is the idea that you're giving something perfect. And you need to control everything. So what is comfortable, controllable, you need to apply. And you need to use technology for helping your daily life.

Antonello Croce: So you're saying that you must use technology as long as the outcome of that product is at least the same?

Edoardo Felici: Exactly. Or maybe even better. Even better. Exactly, exactly. Absolutely.

Antonello Croce: So, and how is your situation? I mean, do you have you changed something using the digital or you…

Edoardo Felici: Okay. So we are changing course. Because again, you need to be open-minded. You need to be open to trying something new. We are changing, but I would say that our protocol is still 80% analog. The 20% is biting a little bit, but more, more, more, more. So, we use digital scanners, but we incorporate with analog impressions, for example. That's because we saw that still, for the final product, also for our ceramists who are able to layer the porcelain in a way that only with analog, yes, of course, they can do. We still need the analog. And also, we can control it better, basically.

But we are trying to incorporate, actually in New York, they are trying to find a way. They're creating this, what we call hybrid model. Talking about digital so that they are able to recreate a model digital, but that can be used for layer porcelain. Refractory only on the teeth that they need to remove from the cast. But the cast would... it's made by digital workflow. It's something that we are trying to study and it's not still used, but we will open this topic.

Antonello Croce: Okay. So, from intraoral scanning, having a model, having a model from 3D scanning that can be used for making them refractory?

Edoardo Felici: Yeah. So maybe, just... because, because if you... so, there are two types of cast models that you can use for aesthetics, for layered porcelain. One is with platinum foil. I spoke with one of my ceramists two days ago, and he was saying that he still feels that the platinum foil is not fit that well on the digital cast. So they still need the stone, basically. And the other way is the refractory, but the refractory needs stone. So it's a particular stone. So it needs still an analog impression. We're working on pouring, so now we are trying to find a way. Don't ask me how, because they are more specific with me.

Antonello Croce: You'll keep us updated.

Edoardo Felici: Yeah, exactly. I mean, for sure when it's going to be a thing, you will know this. But yeah, they're studying a way to do the refractory digital. That's really interesting. It might be mild, who knows, guys.

Antonello Croce: Just for closing the part, the topic of digital versus analog, because we talk a lot about this, me and you during the dinners. To end up this conversation, it's like, I would say that there's no better option.

Edoardo Felici: I don't think there's a better option. It's about how you know how to manage the workflow. Again, it's important this, because a lot of people ask me why you are not, why do you think it's better, this or that? I don't, honestly, I don't know. But with me, with my workflow, with what we are doing, I still prefer mixing and finding impression as still more confident with the analog.

Antonello Croce: That's a good point because when I have the same question. I mean, if I buy that software, is that software better than this? It depends. What are your skills?

Edoardo Felici: Exactly. 

Antonello Croce: Because definitely if we talk about software, let's say if you are very good at managing the CAD, you can use that kind of software that is a bit more difficult, for example, but you know how to manage it, and so you can really manage the outcome of the design. Or the other way. If you're not that skilled, you might use the other software that will help you more.

Edoardo Felici: Yeah. And yeah, you made a good part of it. And also, it's about a lot of the time, digital can help you on the marketing side.

But for what we are doing, we are trying to focus more on the final, actually on the handcrafting. So, and giving... it's more about value when... not now. I mean, I don't know, but also the value. It's about you, because I'm sure that you are more digital. You can give more value on the digital aspect. And if I give you the value on the analog, you don't know how to give the value because you are not feeling part of that process, you know? So again, even this, it's about…

Every dentist, every technician. And how you treat the material at the end. 

Antonello Croce: We have a lot of tools nowadays and we must know how to use them.

Edoardo Felici: Yeah, yeah. Exactly. Exactly. 

Antonello Croce: Let's talk about AI, for example. 

Edoardo Felici: But also this, you need to be open, you need to understand what could be the limit or the possibilities. But it's important to not be closed with your mindset and think, I'm the only one who's doing the right thing. Try to study what the others are doing. What's the new thing? And then try, you cannot stop performing. See if you want…

 If you want to apply it on your daily life or not.

Yeah. It's important. 

Antonello Croce: Makes sense. You cannot stop the progress.

Edoardo Felici: Yeah, definitely. I mean, of course. 

Antonello Croce: What is the difference of a high-fee smile compared to a conventional smile?

Edoardo Felici: No, there's no difference. No difference. This is a good question because a lot of people ask me, "Yeah, but you guys, you are only doing celebrities." And people... It's not true. It's not true. We are trying to give the best results to everyone. And there's no high standard or low standard, cheap or no, it's all about how you want to invest, how you want to understand the value of what you are doing as a patient. And for me as a doctor, it's all about giving the best to every patient. Every patient.

Antonello Croce: So, let's say I'm a patient. What is the workflow when I come to the clinic? Where do we start? 

Edoardo Felici: Yeah. So the patient is... imagine you are a patient and you want to do a smile makeover consult with me. So the patient is called by one of my patient coordinators. They start to understand more or less what the patient wants, and we try to get as many, we call them contact points, as they can, at least two, three, or four. It means that from the first call, we try to call again or message at least four times. It's better to do four or more times before the patient comes to the clinic. It's important because probably the first time the patient will say, I need a smile makeover because I broke a tooth.

Antonello Croce: So even though the appointment is scheduled, you call me four times?

Edoardo Felici: Yeah, yeah. Even better. Even better if it's already... I mean, it's not common that... but over time, they just call the first time, and they schedule the appointment. Because sometimes, we are curious. So we want to know what you are doing, who the doctor is, and what the doctor is doing. But I also want to know what you want from me? You know, so it's important. And it's also important that my patient coordinator is the one who knows the patient because they get close. And it's crucial for what we are doing because the expectations are so high, because we are not just fixing problems, we are trying to improve a lot of things: emotion, confidence…

Antonello Croce: Do you categorize patients in some way?

Edoardo Felici: Yeah. Yeah. That's why we need, I will tell you, that's why we need a lot of contact points even before me knowing the patient. So we categorize in terms of every one of us... I would say that I'm more of an emotional type. You can be more technical. Some people are more concerned about money, financial, for example. Financial. Exactly. So it's important. That's why the more questions you ask, the more contact points you have with the patient, the easier it's going to be the process is, and the final result is going to be better because I also know how to talk with the patient, you know?

Antonello Croce: For the first consultation, for the first…

Edoardo Felici: And second and third, but yeah, so let's go faster because... but it's so important. The first consult and the first impression.

Antonello Croce: Yeah, that's where I'm going now. The first consultation it's like more than an hour, right?

Edoardo Felici: Yeah, for sure. For sure. It can be with me, can be also two hours.

Antonello Croce: Why is that very important?

Edoardo Felici: Because, because listen, look at how many things we have to say now. And we don't have the time to say everything. And with the patient, it needs to be like this because they need to get the value of what we are doing. So it's so important, but the first consultation starts from the first call because you have only one option, one possibility to make you feel comfortable and to have a good first impression. You know? So it's important. Then, when the patient arrives... so the patient arrives already feeling at home because you are speaking with this lady for so long that you're not feeling, oh, I'm going to the dentist. Hopefully, he is not going to say anything bad to me because that's the thing, that's the reality of what people think about dentists. You know, so they need to feel comfortable and they usually come again. The patient coordinator now finally meets in person. So we are all happy. They invite them for coffee and whatever, and then it's important that they start talking with them a little bit more deeply.

And they show usually they do a round of... a tour, sorry, of the clinic. Especially the lab, because it's important for them to see the lab. Because that's the value. Again, yes, that's what we are, we feel different. That's our value. And it's beautiful. The lab, it's actually the most important part of our clinic.

Antonello Croce: I would love to come and see that.

Edoardo Felici: You should. You should, because you never came.

Antonello Croce: No. Ah, okay. No.

Edoardo Felici: You should come because it's like, I love watches. And I would love to be invited by Rolex to see how they handmake every watch. And that's the reality of what we are doing. So it's amazing and it's still a way to get the patient comfortable because they know. They see everything. They are more confident.

Antonello Croce: But at this stage, I haven't met the doctor yet.

Edoardo Felici: No. No.

Now it's when the patient goes to our meeting room, basically it's a separate room. They are still not in the chair because again, the chair, the patient is... dentistry is scaring, it's painful, and I don't want to be there. Even if you have the most advanced chair, they don't care. They don't see the chair. It's still a chair. They see the turbine, they see the burn and the sound, the sounds and everything. Music is also so important because of course, categorizing the patient, if I have an emotional patient, I would choose something that is powerful. If I feel that I have a technical patient, I will not put rap music because I'm sure, especially here…

Antonello Croce: Do you have any distraction like TV as well or…

Edoardo Felici: Yes, but not so much because we also want to keep the point. I mean, we are still a dental clinic. Some clinics... no, we put on the screen some of our cases. Before and after. Because they start, they still left behind this start thinking.

Antonello Croce: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Edoardo Felici: No, no. But also, it's beautiful,l and we want to show what we are good at. So, in this different room, again, the patient starts filling the form, and again, the patient coordinator talks with them. And then the patient coordinator comes to me now, finally, and she explains to me more or less what she got from the patient. What kind of patient is. By the way, we also have morning meetings every morning, so altogether, technicians, nurses, patient coordinators, and all the doctors for the patients who are coming. So yeah, we go through the full schedule for everyone. So everyone needs to be there because it's important that everyone knows which patients are coming.

Antonello Croce: And you're dealing with different multicultures of patients. 

Edoardo Felici: It's important. So it must be very... yeah, it's important. Is it, it's one of the most important parts of the day that you like.

Antonello Croce: Yeah. The morning meeting.

Edoardo Felici: Yeah. Is enthusiastic. I mean, do you... Yeah, it's where it's actually important because it's where you start feeling the energy of the team and how they will go. It seems so important. So the patient calls me, she will explain me everything, and then it's when I enter the room, talk with the patient, and bring the patient to the chair. Finally, take X-rays. I need to cut this because it's going to be so long. Took the x-rays, pictures, and then it's when I start explaining everything, and I try to show as much as I can my vision and what the patient needs.

Antonello Croce: You're explaining what she's going through.

Edoardo Felici: Yeah. I see. Okay. The full workflow. 

Antonello Croce: And then maybe we'll listen to the next episode to learn how it's going to finish this.

Edoardo Felici:  Yeah. You were asking me why it's so long, and it's taking me one hour just to explain. So imagine, imagine. 

Antonello Croce: But let's go in your like, picture, you are an Ironman competitor.

Edoardo Felici: Yeah. And I was…

Antonello Croce: Okay. Yeah, because I heard it's like a full-time job to get prepared for this. I actually haven't... I mean, I don't know how it really works, so maybe you can explain to…

Edoardo Felici: Yeah. Who doesn't know it yet. So, Ironman, it's a competition. One day competition with two, no, it's four kilometers, I forgot. It was four kilometers swim, then straight to the 180-kilometer bike cycling, and then a full marathon. So 42 kilometers running. Yeah, in one full day.

Antonello Croce: And when did you stop?

Edoardo Felici: I stopped after I got in this slot for the World Championship. So I stopped because my competitiveness stopped basically because I reached the highest level that I was imagined to reach. So, yeah.

Antonello Croce: And then you gave it?

Edoardo Felici: I switched. I switched. I gave it all to dentistry. Yeah. It's like this. 

Antonello Croce: So, actually, that was the question. How does that help in your professional career?

Edoardo Felici: It's again, I think, I think it was the first time after me, I would say, stopping doing this activity, saying, I will take the benefit from all of this to increase my dentistry life. So for me, I think sport is helping you not just for relaxation, because it's what I'm doing now. I'm doing sports for relaxation, but also to be competitive. But in a good way, even because Ironman or whatever, it's an individual sport, so your competition is against you, and it helps you to have this mindset of trying to increase and to grow and to perform better. So then you will be better in your job, in your daily life, but also with the people around you. 

Antonello Croce: Like you're following one of the... like Jim Rohn always says, work, learn to work harder on yourself than you do on your job. So then you…

Edoardo Felici: Nice. Yeah. Nice. I will use this. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, absolutely. You need to be your worst enemy because you want to beat yourself, and by doing this, you will grow.

Antonello Croce: Yeah. We need to build ourselves. I mean, we are born, and then we need to work on ourselves to give our best. 

Edoardo Felici: And no one, no one will give you anything.

Yeah. So you need to take whatever you can from anyone in a good way.

And you need to give also.

You need to give. Exactly. Because if not, you will be alone. Exactly.

Antonello Croce: Yeah. No, no, for sure. For sure. Regarding this, what is your suggestion to the new students, the young students who are maybe thinking of some dream job?

Edoardo Felici: Come to my course. No. My suggestion has always been try to be every day a little bit better. Try to, I mean, follow your passion for sure.

Antonello Croce: And so if you are not passionate about this, maybe…

Edoardo Felici: No, of course. Yeah, no, exactly. Just change. Find your passion. Just find your passion, work for it, and simply try to be the best. Because no one can tell you that you are not. So try to be the best and try to look at the next five years.

Antonello Croce: I give you another one. Jim Rohn says this also. If I can do it, you can do it.

Edoardo Felici: Of course, of course. It's always been like this, but also, yeah. Look at what you want to be in five years. Every time. Five years. So you... That's manifesting basically. Because then you can work for this and be clear on what you want.

Antonello Croce: What's your preferred, do you have any preferred tooth for…

Edoardo Felici: Ah, yeah, of course, of course. So that's also something that I need to learn. Eight and nine. We call the teeth in an American way.

Antonello Croce: Really? No way.

Edoardo Felici: Really difficult for me. Eight and nine. Basically 11 and 21.

Antonello Croce: 11 and 21. Yeah, for sure.

Edoardo Felici: Okay.

Antonello Croce: And the, what's the, um, the tools that no one sees as important? Like they don't give... instrument. You see? Instrument?

Edoardo Felici: Yeah. Yeah. But instead, it is important. What? What's that? Video, cameras for pictures.

Ah yeah. Yeah. It's still, especially for aesthetic dentistry, I think it's one of the most important tools, instruments, and a lot of dentists, they're doing aesthetics. They're trying to do cosmetic aesthetics without a good camera. I think it's one of the most important.

Antonello Croce: So you see guys, the digital…

Edoardo Felici: Exactly. It's in the middle because the pictures, we can express ourselves.

Antonello Croce: Yeah, of course, of course. Definitely. That makes sense. You see. Good. Okay. Thank you, Edoardo, for all your insights and for... it was very fun. It was very fun and nice being with us. Maybe we have a lot to say to these people, and maybe we'll have a second episode. Thank you for listening to this conversation, and thank you, Remedico, for sponsoring this podcast. See you guys in the next episode.